Excelle

I had an insight yesterday. I'm 58 and a 20 something interviewed me about 10 days ago. She would be my supervisor. And there was that awful, how do you handle constructive criticsim? What is your greatest flaw or something like that question. I hemmed and hawed. I felt like I was 11 or 12 again in Catholic school. Then I felt angry after I left. Why should I have to go through this again at my age. Yesterday, the break through came. I must respect myself before I can expect the world to respect me. The job market has thrived on humilation for too long. I have a proven work record. I have made a difference in people's lives. I have sucessfully raised a family and lived a responsible life. I am a dedicated worker and an honest person. I have a lot to offer. I don't know how much longer our economy, our country and our way of life will survive with so many peoples' talents, experience, education and potential being wasted or devalued. All of us are natural resources. We are so concerned about environmental issues. Yet we allow ourselves to be wasted in this manner.

carol4352 says ...

I had an insight yesterday. I'm 58 and a 20 something interviewed me about 10 days ago. She would be my supervisor. And there was that awful, how do you handle constructive criticsim? What is your greatest flaw or something like that question. I hemmed and hawed. I felt like I was 11 or 12 again in Catholic school. Then I felt angry after I left. Why should I have to go through this again at my age. Yesterday, the break through came. I must respect myself before I can expect the world to respect me. The job market has thrived on humilation for too long. I have a proven work record. I have made a difference in people's lives. I have sucessfully raised a family and lived a responsible life. I am a dedicated worker and an honest person. I have a lot to offer. I don't know how much longer our economy, our country and our way of life will survive with so many peoples' talents, experience, education and potential being wasted or devalued. All of us are natural resources. We are so concerned about environmental issues. Yet we allow ourselves to be wasted in this manner.

Thanks! I just printed that out and stuck it on my computer table where I will see it every day!

It is absolutely exhausting though isn't it?

The job scam artists are another creepy thing that takes my energy away. You know, it  took me about 20 minutes of searching to believe that the email I had received for an employment opportunity was a real company and not a scam. Those folks have "gotten on my last nerve' as they say in Georgia. I'm afraid someone is going to offer me a position and I'll act paranoid thinking it's a scam in my inbox and blow it!

Oh, hi - it's me wondering when we will learn not to mirror the comments of a younger person as a slap. Not everyone handles age differences as hurdles. I'm working with a large group of temps ranging from early 20's to 60's on a summer project. In all our discussion at the lunch tables, no one has brought up age slams nor has anyone made me feel "over the hill." Maybe I am dense, but I have to think that if folks connect in their conversations and can reveal a true interest in the other person's point of view, the age thing is not as major.

Job hunting. like aging, is not for sissies. But we have to become more creative somehow. Right now, I'm liking the gypsy wagon idea for sheer creativity! If you're qualified to handle marinecraft, that might be a good route. But doublecheck your and their insurance liabilities first.

Don't forget to be gentle with yourselves and each other. Don't become bitter that someone younger or perhaps not educated or experienced is interviewing you. At one time in your lives, you probably fit that profile for someone older. Think back how you handled that situation. Use your life experiences more positively. It's hard, I know. I really really do know how hard it can be, but I believe our emotions and thoughts can be reflected back upon us most unexpectedly sometimes.

Good luck to all of us!

"One thing that I have discovered is that you have to accept that young people under 25, for the most part, are self-centered and have very few social skills and not a clue about professionalism. "

Totally true. Here in New York City everything is dense, very competitive. There are a lot of children of the wealthy who relocate here. They in particular have this sense of overinflated self-importance and arrogance. Some of the most influential businessmen and women that I have met in real estate and the non-profit world have been humble and down to earth when conversing with others who are not on the same high level. That diplomacy and graciousness is a mark of a refined individual and a true professional who can interact with a variety of different people and not offend or repulse others! For me, my goal is to be my own boss - I am a real estate entrepreneur. Any job whether part or full time is just a back up until the market picks up. These people are really no competition for me!! I have my  own thing going on privately that has nothing to do with any of them. It's important to do your "surival job" well even if it is a long term back up to something more lucrative. I'm just there to do my job and then go home - or go to my appointment after that. I'm not there for gossip, for joining cliques or other juvenile stuff. I'm always gracious and cheerful with everyone no matter what!

However, that being said, I have never been interviewed a second time or gotten an offer when the manager or staff of a company are mostly young 20 somethings. Clearly, they don't don't feel comfortable with me. How else can you explain this? I personally don't feel comfortable with them either - hey, that's life. Not everything is a good fit. Better to realize it now than later and we can save our precious time and money. When one goes to an interview, the candidate is also assessing the interviewer and the company culture. It works both ways, let's keep that in mind. Nothing wrong with that.

Some of the experts are predicting that the worst may be over!  Thank goodness!

I'm in Executive Search in the Houston, Texas market and we are definitely seeing positive movement in our area!  Great news!  Keep the faith - it's beginning to turn around!

I just had the most UNUSUAL job interview.  I was contacted and told that out of 128 resumes they received for a position, mine was one of the top 5.  They scheduled a meeting for the top five candidates this past week.  The unusual part is that all five of us were interviewed in front of each other, which added some interesting aspects to the situation.  We were each asked the same question and were able to hear each others answers, which almost made you feel as if they were pitting you against each other.  As one person told me, it made them feel as if they had to come up with a better answer than the previous person gave, so I'm not sure this was a good format for interviewing.  For 45 minutes we answered questions, then took a behavorial exam followed by 5 essay type questions.  A decision hasn't been made yet but I can almost guarantee you I won't get the job.  The other four candidates all seemed very intelligent and well qualified but they were a good 20 years younger than me.  I had visions getting liposuction and a face lift as I watched them answer the question.  Maybe cosmetic surgery is the answer to competing for a job since so much emphasis seems to be placed on physical attributes these days. 

Does anyone out there want someone who has a strong work ethic, is flexible, likes challenges, enjoys learnings new skills?  Can any one appreciate experience and wisdom, even though the face is a little worse for wear?  I sure can't seem to find them.

I found a job!  And you won't believe how.  I answered a Craig's List posting.  Right now I am feeling very blessed.  The company is small (24 people), and a family owned business.  However, they have good benefits - one being, they close down the week of Christmas and they pay you!  They also have some very adequate medical insurance and a solid vacation / PDO package.  I will tell you that I am going to make about half what I did at my previous position.  I can live with that.  I have to.  I have been laid off from my previous job for 7 months.  This has been the first time in my adult life that I have not had a job.  I also believe that God has a plan - I don't know what it is yet - but sometimes it feels good to not have to be in charge.  If He brings you to it, He will get you through it.

I truly hope and pray that all of you who have contributed to this forum, and are out of work, will find your next job soon.  God bless.

 I am so glad your employer decided to keep you on - that is what mine should have done - but sometimes these very wealthy people are cheap and cut corners unnecessarily.

I keep on with the job hunt every day despite very little to none encouraging news or any response. My phone is silent and the e-mails I get are from people totally outside of my field of expertise hoping to hook me into some internet scam, train me as a nurse or risk manager (my sister does that and she has a degree in economics - I can't even add!)

I am exploring all the possibilities - like trying to sell photos and articles online, blogging, affiliate marketing, trying to drive traffic to my website etc. - but that pays very little,requires a lot of time and effort ,and it takes time away from the job hunt. I am thinking of taking social security early and taking part-time work (if I can find it) like several of my friends - the SS stipend will not be worth any more when I am 65 or 70 with inflation and anything else we may not have considered factored in and  which could affect those payments.

Be grateful and hang on to the job - it is good to hear stories like yours - all is not lost!

anew56 says ...

It's difficult to not let the younger population intimidate you in some way.  I finally took a part time job at a tanning spa in the mornings to help with my "cabin fever" and to take a break from the all day internet searching. I have a granddaughter who is 17 and one who is 12, so I didn't even think about the age difference between me and the other employees working there - mostly between the ages of 16 and 24.  One thing that I have discovered is that you have to accept that young people under 25, for the most part, are self-centered and have very few social skills and not a clue about professionalism.  So, I have been trying to set a good example, explaining to them along the way why I do things the way that I do.  They may be laughing at me behind my back, but I really don't care.  What's important to me is that I do, think and feel what I believe is right and morally correct for my beliefs.

I did interview for a "real job" the other day.  I too was interviewed by a young woman in her 20's (I'm guessing).  I was impressed by her professionalism and maturity.  The company is very small with little turnover and great benefits - lots of employee appreciation.  It only pays half of what I was making, but I'm thinking it could be that window after the closed door.

By the way, I am really liking that gypsy wagon idea.  Now that's thinking outside the box!  Anyone remember how Avon and Fuller Brush used to operate?  Door-to-door! 

Let's all just keep on keeping on - it's better than flat laying down and giving up.  I shall never surrender!  Sorry, too much caffeine this morning!  Best wishes to all of you! 

Not all younger people are self-centered though, most of them are really looking for a person that will do the job well. They want to keep their jobs so they are going to hire the most qualified people.  There is a slight psychological tendencie to hire a person that seems 'just like you' , so it can be a challenge. 

I'm really glad to hear you got an interview even if it pays half of what you were making.  Job satisfaction, as with life satisfaction, is not really measured in dollars (though try telling that to your creditors , but finding the right fit for you is much more important than the income as long as you can still pay your bills.  You won't succeed if you aren't happy with your company, so when someone doesn't hire you because you're not like them, they might be doing you a big favor. 

If you believe that you are a perfect fit with the company, but the interviewer is very young, pick up a book on body language and mirror it back. Mirroring, and finding ways to relate, can often overcome a lot of age based bias.

About the Gypsy wagon.....It's really been a lifelong dream to own one of those things, and here's a secret, I actually love going door to door.  There's a lot of independence and adventure working like that, but it doesn't pay. Though maybe it would if I did it in one of those wagons. 

I had a job when I was younger delivering pizza and I remember it fondly.  I loved the response of the pets and the kids. They wanted PIZZA and it was a big deal to them.  One little seven year old girl I remember was very suspicious of me. She looked at me with wary eyes and blurted, "What did you do with the pizza man?" I told her, "I put him in the trunk" and her eyes opened as wide as saucers with a bit of fear and in a smaller voice she said, "YOU DID?".  Then, I smiled at her and said, "Of course not silly. Don't you know that they hire pizza girls too? Boys don't get to have all the fun you know"?  She smiled so big it warmed my heart and I have no doubt she spent the next few weeks telling her parents, much to their dismay, that she wanted to grow up to be a pizza girl!

I just recently graduated with my associates degree majoring in accounting. I also moved back to Ohio where emy husband was living while I finished school in NY.  I am depressed.  Thought that being  my area of study, there would be all kinds of jobs because of the fact that there's always going to money spending, investing, saving, and pocketing?!!!??? (as some CEO's have done). Last week I went and got the Sunday paper and nothing. I have joined all kinds of job assisting websites, from moster to accountemps but no luck.

I am scheduled to start a new full time job on May 18th. It's a salesperson position in the furniture industry. It is real estate related and there is some cross-over - and they hired me because of my real estate background. In this economy, real estate is the  LAST thing I want to be doing. Furniture is in higher demand than real estate anyway - particulary now. I went through 3 interviews, a background check and drug test - the things that matter and make a difference. No behavior tests, typing or writing tests - no relative, meaningless "jump through my hoop" "let's see how desperate you really are" stuff. I find that all very amateur and unprofessional. Nothing crazy like that. When one has 12 years work experience (like myself), reference letters, reference phone numbers, phone numbers for everyone on the resume - my point is: I'm not here to waste your time, employers, SO DON'T WASTE MY TIME - I'M NOT HERE TO ENTERTAIN YOU." If  you make it THAT HARD to get a job, how hard is it to actually work with you every day? Call the people and ask them what you need to ask them - I'm not wasting an hour taking tests for every computer program on my resume - and then I never hear from you again. Learn to ask meaning interview questions that target your "issue", just don't torture the interview candidate. I've got more than enough references; personal, business, client referrals. A lot of these employers are taking advantage of the recession to try and get away with things they otherwise would not. I'm here to say, "Not with me, you're not."

Another week of rejects.  Two to be exact.  The first one I knew I wouldn't get, I'd didn't have all the skills.  However, I thought I finally found it, that allusive job.  After three interviews, the final one was with the COO, CEO, and CFO of the local bank.  They all told me how impressed they were with my interviewing skills, with my work experience and skills, and how quickly people warmed up to me.  I'd be such an asset.  They handed me a copy of their benefits and I left feeling on top of the world.  When I arrived home I told my husband..."this is it , I expect to get a job offer tomorrow".  The phone rang at 3:30 p.m. and I could see from my caller id that it was the bank.  I took a deep breath, said a quick prayer and said hello.  The call started out great, the CFO was pointing out why they liked me and then came the "BUT we decided to go with the other candidate".  It was like a punch in the stomach and for the first time, I felt like I might actually cry on the phone but I knew I couldn't do that.  I quickly asked her what the deciding factor was and why they went with the other candidate.  She stammered a little and then said they felt my skills and talents would have been wasted in a back shop operation position, that I needed to be in a higher profile position working with the customers.  I explained to her that I was very aware of the type of position it was when I applied and we had discussed my willingness in all 3 interviews to start at the bottom and I had absolutely no problem with it.  I would have gladly and eagerly accepted the job.  She conceded that she knew that but felt down the road I'd be unhappy.  They offered the job to a young lady just graduating from college.  So there you go, I guess that says it all...once again overqualified and over the age. 

It's hard not to give up.  I asked my husband what will we do if I can't find a job, what if no one ever wants to hire me, how will we survive?  We can't live off his SSN and our savings is quickly running out.  I look around my home and realize that all the things may have to go one day soon, which pieces will I keep, which ones will I sell.  It's hard, I feel defeated although I try to project the face of optimism.  I pray so hard.  I've tried to be good person and do the right things all my life but I feel like I'm being punished.  It's raining outside again and I feel like having a temporary pity party.  Soon it will end and I'll go back to the JOB of searching for a job.  I know I can't give up.  Being able to write helps me vent.  Thanks for letting me share my feelings.

 Whew! Ok, I may be treading into unchartered territory here, but when people are generalized in the J.O.B. Market, I feel the need to present on both sides of the plate....

I'd like to address a few things first and foremost..If I am out of order, please forgive me. I noticed quite a bit of complaints, and I truly do understand as "the middle man" in alot of the scenarios presented....

1. In any given scenario, a "Recruiter" can be a valuable asset to you as a job seeker. The object is to find a recruiter that clearly specializes in the target industry you are seeking opportunities in. Not only will you gain a firm understanding, but you have someone in your corner that understands and knows your "Niche." When working with an independent or a firm for that matter, keep the communication lines open...

2. Not all recruiters are "evil people." Look at it this way. We get on average, between 50-150 resumes in a work-week, depending on several factors. If you aren't getting a call back or a second interview, have you evaluated yourself? Ask yourself several questions:

Do I match the current position I am applying to? 

How did I "command" the interview? Did I follow-up? Did I send a "Thank-you?"

Was I appropriately dressed, neatly groomed? Am I under-qualified? Am I within my "skill-set?"

Do I match what is on paper?

Did I come prepared?

Is my EXPERIENCE & DEMEANOR what this client is looking for? (9x out of 10, it has absolutely nothing to do with age!) Although, there are times when I have interviewed a candidate, and they are only 22 or 23 with backgrounds that don't add up!

There are many a factors that will determine compatibility in matching a candidate and a client. It is our responsibility to make sure that the shoes fit on both sides. In my company, I teach my staff to approach it with the same scenario you would when seeking a long term commitment. Nurture and guidance are extremely important. The idea is to build a career for you and decrease turnover and cost for the client.

3. NEVER PAY A RECRUITER OR FIRM TO FIND A JOB FOR YOU! I just don't recommend it. There are some that do it, but most are geared towards six figure C-Suite Executives. 

4. In any given situation, I as a "Recruiter," don't recommend "spamming" employers. Ninety (90%) percent utilize databases to keep track of the influx of prospects, as with many major and minor firms. We can tell if you are applying for positions that TRULY match your identified skillset.

5. Networking is always a good tool! LinkedIn, HotJobs, Careerbuilder, and many more are wonderful places to start in your search. By having your resume posted or uploaded into these boards, you are making yourself available to many many people nationwide. Join numerous groups that are tailored to your background! Print a card in the format of a business card, that tells people who you are, how you can be reached, what your ideal position is, or what you do and would like to do. I can't tell you as a Staffing Specialist how much attention a prospect will command from me, by being professional. Think like an executive at all times. SELL YOURSELF! Don't be afraid to TOOT YOUR HORN in a manner that gets the attention of those you are trying to reach! But always be humbled!

6. Keep your resume current. Whether it be Chronologically formatted or not. I can't tell you how many times I have gone to call a prospective candidate, and the information was outdated or invalid... Stay true to your skills. I can't emphasize that enough. Mass submitting your resume to employers that don't even match your background is destined to have you put in either the trash can, or a file to be forgotten. While I understand completely the severity of being out of a job, or career for that matter, patience, professionalism, and positive thinking and sourcing are going to be your best friend.

7. For those of you who are fairly new to the market, evolution is key. Easier said than done. A vast majority, if not all of you are going to have tremendous backgrounds. With the right "Recruiter" on your side, you can be marketed in a manner that would put you in a position, possibly, that wouldn't have been known or advertised if you had searched on your own.

8. As a Staffing Specialist, I will say this. It is my job to remain connected, and "In The Know" per say. I make it my responsibility to take a talent that I feel might need that extra "umph" and put in front of those that would never know you existed otherwise, and make beautiful music. In the end, even though I make the connection and get you in the door, the ball will always remain in your court. What you do at that interview, or even after for that matter, is completely up to you!

9. FYI, there are some companies that will only hire via a Corporate or 3rd Party Recruiter. So, with that being said, you may not get very far without one. There are alot of positions that are not advertised or publicized for numerous reasons...

There are many more responses, and I am sorry ahead of time if I didn't touch on each one of them. Just adding some friendly advice. Don't feel misguided! But, if anyone feels they need a little reassurance, or extra advice, please feel free to shoot me an email, and I will leave my contact info so we can chat.

There are resources, as well as options available, you just have to identify which ones will work for you. Recruiter or not........

Keep your heads up ladies, and I am here to help in any fashion!

SheilaG says ...

Now I know what business the Shadchan went into when the idea of arranged marriages went out of practice.

Your humor always finds a place in my heart Sheila!

Verdaria says ...

. The other kind of person they place is someone who has very stable work history. I am not in any of these categories, and most people here in New York City are not either. So basically the average person stands no chance with a recruiter unless it is for a - temp job. It is common here for people to change jobs every 2 or 3 years, especially if they are in administrative support or not traditional industry jobs (non profits, arts, sales jobs). Lack of challenge, opportunities within the same company to move up, budget cuts & layoffs, family reasons, - in my 12 years I have had all of these reasons. Recruiters  and placement agencies refuse to deal with me with regard to permanent high-quality jobs - even entry level ones. They all seem to have this arrogance and lack of respect for candidates here in New York City. They all want fresh young Paris Hilton lookalike, bubbly, millenials.  I see and have experienced clear age discrimination among other issues. Finding a recruiter who is good is nearly impossible. Why should anyone waste the time, money and like someone here said, bytes and ink? If a recruiter was recommended to me, maybe I would give them a shot. Without candidates, they would all be out of work.

 

I understand the frustration, however, not understanding the basis. Your accusations are quite strong. 

In my professional opinion, if I have a candidate cross my desk that has job hopped every 2-3 years, then there is a need to dig deeper. Either there is a problem, or there is an explanation (In-House, Military, Re-location due to promotion within) 

It seems to me, if the "hopping" was legitimate, then I don't see why there would have been a problem in placing you in a position. Unless, there was not a current need for your identified skillset, something didn't pan out with your background, references weren't positive, the recruiter didn't understand your industry....I could go on and on and on. 

There are many reasons why some relationships just don't work. That is where the communication comes in. New York, CA, GA, FL, AK, blah blah. There is not a single difference in the type of candidate that is needed in any part of the country. Stereotypes are what make us all bad names. You can be as intelligent as they come, and just so happen to look the part, or you don't. 

As for the candidate part, the candidate should NEVER pay for a recruiter. That's nationwide! There are some "Consulting" firms that do charge, but there is a difference. Our fees are either Retainers or Contingency based. And that comes from the employer once you are hired! 

I truly am sorry that you have had a bad experience in the past with Recruiters, but not all of us are the same! Generalizing is not the way to beat the stereotypical outcome! 

Everything is researchable, discoverable, even you. Take the time to research, communicate, and evaluate the Recruiter before you choose to work with them. Make sure you have an understanding and a clear concept on both parties as to what should be accomplished. Hopefully, you will end up with what you set out for......A NEW CAREER!