Excelle

jespinoza1978 says ...

LittlePinky82 says ...

 

The insanity started with Bush and his "tax cuts" during a time of two wars.  Not even Nixon was that dumb during Vietnam.  Heck he actually helped people with the food stamp program. 

The bailout thing going on now Bush actually started before he left D.C.  And when people ask where you were during his terms I know for myself I am asking about all the wild spending and taking a surplus and turning it into this God awful defecit that we're all paying for for years. 

Who has Obama demonized?  Do you mean that Homeland Security report?  Psst Bush did that before he left too.  It was his department who did.  And why shouldn't Obama be worried with all the racism?  Do you know the history of the KKK and the Neo-Nazi's with violence and racism?  Making threats against the president is illegal no matter who it is.  Were you out there protesting and screaming when anti-war groups like the Quakers were being spied upon and infilterated?  What about when us Commies are?  We always have to worry about that with our meetings.  Nobody seems to care about that.

What does Russia, China and Venezeula have to do with the law of Roe v Wade?  The issue isn't about abortion.  It's about whether or not women have the privacy over their own bodies and medical history.  Do we or do we not have the control over our own medical bodies?  Why do you want to control someone's life with which you know nothing about?  Would you like me to say you must do this or that and I don't know a damn thing about your life?  Of course not.  I wish people would understand the law before talking about it.

Somehow I fail to believe you'd still be out there protesting if this was McCain. 

Look I am not here to attack anyone.I am here to try to have a healthy discussion.I mentioned all of those things that you said in my previous post. abortion is an example,not an issue in the post. People want the governemnt to stay out of their business right.

I have seen you psot that quite a bit when it comes to the issue of abortion.as well As many others. I use as an example.Because the same people who I see,in my opinion,from my experience and viewpoint.Seem to be the same ones that want the government to interven in all other aspects of their lives.That just seems to be the going rate.

You have your beliefs you are not willing to waver on,and that's fine. But I stand by my beliefs as well.and I know in my heart if anybody,McCain,Obama,freakin Bugs Bunny was in office doing this stuff I would still stand where I stand,and that is the same place where I stood during the Bush Administration.

The countries mentioned and know for both historically and through Human rights organizations to have problems with how they deal with their citizens. They are Communist (Which I donot agree with,and you do.It is not an attack on your views)just a fact. That communist countries not only run just about every aspect of their citizens lives,from telling them how many kids they can or cannot have,to what kind of job they are to have for the rest of their lives.Russiain it's early years had camps similiar to Nazi camps for those that disagreed with the Government.China has many human rights violations,look at Tibet.Cuba and Guatemula have hundreds if not thousands of people that go missing ever year. There is something wrong with the system of a government having too much power. That is my opinion from what I have seen in my own experiences in Mexico,and facts and personal accounts that freinds and family members have told me.is it only Communist countries that do such things,NO, of course not.So if I offeneded you by single out only communist countries,I aoplogizes,and will keep that in mind for future post.

But donot comment in a way that you know me personally,or my convictions.I might only be a couple years older then you.But I know what I know to be true.And I stand by it.and I will not for you or anyone else stop posting how I feel,believe,or know to be true in this topic or any other.I am willing to have a healthy discussion.I state my points and try (maybe not successfully sometimes) but try to be civilzed aboout it.

Have a nice evening.

Because I am responding to you, making observations and asking you question's directly why do you think I am "attacking" you?  Sorry but that's just not there.  No where did I attack you so please stop saying that people (mostly me by the way) are attacking you for replying to what you say.  The whole point of political discussions is for everyone to have their say and their opinions and to challenge each other.  This happens all the time on forums where there is a political discussion going on and even in the class room when I have classes where there are discussions about issues.  So please stop saying I am attacking you by simply responding to what you are saying.  For all things holy.  When you respond to me notice how I don't say you're attacking me just because you're challenging me and what I say.  Why are you doing that to me?   How do you think that is right?  I notice you don't do that to anyone else who has responded to you.  When you say something I am going to challenge you and everyone else here as well and I will correct you if you are wrong about something especially if you are presenting that as fact.  I am someone who likes to think of myself as mature enough to handle that being thrown back at me so I expect it to happen on a public forum where anyone can sign up and respond.  Now moving on.

You don't get the abortion issue.  The issue is NOT abortion.  The issue is about whether or not we as women have control over our individual lives with our medical decisions.  I know that my life is nothing close to your life and vice versa.  Would you want me, a perfect stranger who knows NOTHING about you, to make that decision?  I know for myself as a Communist the law of Roe v Wade goes hand-in-hand with communism.  There is NO contradiction.  We in communism believe in the democratic process and each of us getting to choose our life path and that's what Roe v Wade is about.  Also, that the fourth amendment applies  us women, our dr's and our medical records.  I also believe the government shouldn't dictate science which is different from funding it.  Having abortion legal means women who choose to have an abortion and our dr's and those who support us won't be made into criminals.  Look up Chile and the abortion issue.  Did you know over 300 women yearly die in Chile because of unsafe abortion practices?  Abortion is illegal there so because it's illegal if a woman wants or needs an abortion she and her dr and supporters have to hide and can't use medical facilities.  It's hell for everyone.  And what if someone finds out?  You can still go to jail.  It's ridiculous.  If you personally don't like abortion don't do it.  You don't know my life or anything about me, my family or my financial situation so why should you have any say in what happens?  Especially if you won't be there for the pregnancy and after the birth and have nothing to do with the child afterwards growing up and helping to pay for things like dr visit's, education, clothes, food etc. 

No.  Russia is NOT communist and hasn't been since Lenin.  China is NOT communist and hasn't been since Chairman Mao.  Venezuela is a Democratic Republic just like here in the U.S.  There has only been ONE country in the last few centuries that has been close to communism and that is Cuba.  You have no freakin clue what you are talking about with communism and as a Communist I can say that for a damn fact.  You only know propoganda and that's pathetic.   Go to http://www.cpusa.org and read everything there.  When you're done there I can give you more links to read about communism from the sources and not propoganda.   What the hell does Mexico have to do with communism?  Nothing.  Mexico is NOT a part of Cuba and have nothing in common.   How can you have a civilized conversation with the crap you pull with saying I'm attacking you when I state you're wrong?  Get real.

jespinoza1978 says ...

LittlePinky82 says ...

How can you have a civilized conversation with the crap you pull with saying I'm attacking you when I state you're wrong?  Get real.

Like I said on the other post, sorry if I misunderstood you. But many of your responses to post that I have done,come off snide and take on a personal level. Just like this comment here. And the fact that you misunderstand the statments that I make.Maybe it's just two people misunderstanding each other. I will try not to take the remarks to heart. The other ladies do not post little comments that come off snide.That is why. I follwed you up to this point here and that is an example of the banter we are both doing.

I put up a forum on communism and socialism, and was hoping you could or would take the debate there.

But again I used the statment of Abortion as an example on ideals and principles,not as the issue. And I am fully awary of what is happening in Chile and many other countries concerning rights.

How can you tell?  It's text.  Unless I'm using my voice or I indicate through text that I'm being a certain way it's just you making stuff up.  Same thing with me.   You did?  I'm sorry if I missed it.  I would be happy to join in.  Is it in the controversial topics?  Anytime I can talk about communism and socialism I am up for it since there's so much misunderstanding out there.   The point I made about Chile was how un fair and inhumane it is and how we as women shouldn't, in my opinion, want that for us.

DaisyS says ...

Jespinoza1978, it is okay that you are in the minority....a republican.  We will never agree so why bother to debate. 

I just to say, yeah we will disagree. And I am not a Republican.I am a Libertarian.and I blame both sides,I have stated that many times before.And that is fine that you beleive what you believe.The topic was to get a response from people on whether or not they believed the people who disagreed with Obama are just racist. And many do not think so.and that is what I was hoping for.I am in no way defending the Bush adminstration or Republicans.so if my last post lead you to believe,I will try to be more clear next time.But you are right that the discussions need to return to how to make the economy grow again.But I think that is another post.So I hope you have fun on your hike's.I only live in flat lands,no hiking here.My sister lives in Colorado Springs and there is tons of that stuff there.

 Of course your not racist.  I'm black and I don't agree with him. I don't like having to give up more of my hard earned money to the government no matter what it's being used for.  I didn't even vote for him.  Also keep in mind, if you are white, that Obama is BI-RACIAL! So if anyone say's your racist ask how you can dislike half of a persons genes.

KristaJGizzo says ...

 Of course your not racist.  I'm black and I don't agree with him. I don't like having to give up more of my hard earned money to the government no matter what it's being used for.  I didn't even vote for him.  Also keep in mind, if you are white, that Obama is BI-RACIAL! So if anyone say's your racist ask how you can dislike half of a persons genes.

Exactly! Thank you KristaJGizzo.People who are focusing on the policies and not what Obama look like are constantly being attacked for being racist.Because they disagree with policy.Not his skin color.

StormKnight says ...

jespinoza:

I just read your posting and I must say that I agree with you 100%. I'm a Black American and I didn't vote for Obama and I don't agree with his policies. To really look at what he's doing. It's a Biden Presidency with a Clinton Cabinet, to include the nomination of Judge Sotomayor. I suppose no one remembers Clinton nominating her. Any way all of the political issues have been raised and I'm teaching my neice and nephews how to deal with their money so all this Stimulus BS doesn't crush them in their golden years. My concern is with the looseness of the word RACIST. NONE OF US HAVE FACED A RACIST MYSELF INCLUDED. We've faced prejudice, ignorance, bigotry and discrimination but unless you've lived in the time from slavery thru the signing of the Civil Rights Act. You've NOT dealt with a racist. A racist is someone, or a group of people, who have the power, influence and affluence to make life miserable for another people group. My great -great grandmother showed me a copy of the form that blacks were required to fill out if they desired to vote. It's obscene! I still have that document. It's one of the reasons I do vote and that I do pay attention to the platforms and not the rhetoric. 

No, Angie's not a racist. I think that thankfully they're few in number and that we as a people have better sense. For a brief period there in the 80's they almost had a come back but we, as a people and a nation, thwarted them. It is my prayer that none of us ever encounter a racist because racists are poisonous and deceitful. Look at how long it took Germany to recover from Hitler. It's only now that they're comfortable in their land and proud of their heritage. (I've lived in Germany and have been back to visit. It's a wonderful country and when I speak to the people there they beam with a pride that says they'll never allow that to happen again.) We should be so bright.

S. Knight

storm thank you so much for the comment.It is something that needs to be said by those in the black community as well.What I see alot of on other sites is pure bulling if you disagree with policy.But they have no problem calling people vile and vulgar things about those that disagree.Policy is what needs to be looked not skin color.even those that are minorities like you and I are called horrible things.as a way of pushing their ideas down our throats.Things that are themselves racist.

i really appreciate what you said.=)

JMillan says ...

Not necessarily. It can just mean that you are very conservative. As long as you give yourself the opportunity to learn about his goals while in office, but if you choose disagree with him just because, without knowing any stats- then just go back, check yourself and think about it a little more.

I am actually a Libertarian.Just joined the party offically the other week=)And I disagree with just about everything,his administration is doing.Just about.Libertarians are independents.And according to Liberals if you are Pro-Choice and support gay marriage,you can not be possible be a conservative.It makes an automatic moderate.

Rashmuchan (I think that's spelled right) and Gallop polls show the a majority of independents disagree with the policies of the current administration.It is not that we don't like Obama we don't like the policies, or his picks in his staff,cabinet members and other important officails.So to say that if you disagree it means you are ultra conservative,might be a big misunderstanding that people have.

StormKnight says ...

jespinoza:

I just read your posting and I must say that I agree with you 100%. I'm a Black American and I didn't vote for Obama and I don't agree with his policies. To really look at what he's doing. It's a Biden Presidency with a Clinton Cabinet, to include the nomination of Judge Sotomayor. I suppose no one remembers Clinton nominating her. Any way all of the political issues have been raised and I'm teaching my neice and nephews how to deal with their money so all this Stimulus BS doesn't crush them in their golden years. My concern is with the looseness of the word RACIST. NONE OF US HAVE FACED A RACIST MYSELF INCLUDED. We've faced prejudice, ignorance, bigotry and discrimination but unless you've lived in the time from slavery thru the signing of the Civil Rights Act. You've NOT dealt with a racist. A racist is someone, or a group of people, who have the power, influence and affluence to make life miserable for another people group. My great -great grandmother showed me a copy of the form that blacks were required to fill out if they desired to vote. It's obscene! I still have that document. It's one of the reasons I do vote and that I do pay attention to the platforms and not the rhetoric. 

No, Angie's not a racist. I think that thankfully they're few in number and that we as a people have better sense. For a brief period there in the 80's they almost had a come back but we, as a people and a nation, thwarted them. It is my prayer that none of us ever encounter a racist because racists are poisonous and deceitful. Look at how long it took Germany to recover from Hitler. It's only now that they're comfortable in their land and proud of their heritage. (I've lived in Germany and have been back to visit. It's a wonderful country and when I speak to the people there they beam with a pride that says they'll never allow that to happen again.) We should be so bright.

S. Knight

That doesn't make any sense at all.  How can you say it's a Biden presidency?  You never hear anything about him doing anything.  He has yet to do half of the things Cheney did as vice president.  So please prove your claims if you can.  I'll be waiting.

As far it being a Clinton cabinent well duh.  Most people who are his age in politics WILL have some sort of connection to the Clinton administration.  After all he was the last democratic president.  Did you want him to go back to Jimmy Carter's administration?  I'm sure half, if not most, of those people are retired and his age.  He's a democrat so not everybody in his administration or some part of it be a republican.  Good grief.

Uh do you know the purpose of a stimulus bill?  The point is to create money flow in the economy to stay out of the red.  Did you teach them about it when it was George Bush or just Barack Obama?  Also did you point out that a lot of republicans added in their own pork to the bill that wasn't needed?  Also with the credit card bill recently republicans added some nonsense crap bill about being able to bring guns in national parks.  Did you tell about nonsense like that?  

You pay attention to platforms and not rehtoric?  LOL how can you say that after the Biden remark you made and about the Clinton's? I think you just contradicted yourself....  And you guys are supposed to be older than me?  Wow....

If you believe all racist's have been thrwarted I'm sorry to say you're wrong.  As long as there are people out there who will listen to the crap they'll be out there.  Here in TN not too long ago some white power guy was arrested because he was making assissination plans and threats against president Obama.  Why?  Because he's half black.  And look at the Minutemen and their shit with anyone who is from south of the boarder.   Please stop fooling yourself.  I wish it was so but it's never going to fully go away.   That's why it's good to renforce cultural differences and education about other cultures.  Look at all the rightwing crap Ms Sonia Sotomayor is getting for being a Latino woman from Pureto Rico!

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_ame...

Here is the poll information that has been asked for.Obama's approval ratings are slightly down but remain consistent.Like I said, people like Obama they don't like his Adminstration or his policies. It is 37% of Americans think this country is going in the right direction, and 57% think it is headed in the wrong direction.

Also The American Independent Party (which I am not apart of) is also the fasting growing political group right now.Here is their site for anyone who might want more information.

http://www.aipca.org/

For someone who says that we are not headed in the socialist direction,it sure seems like you suppport alot of his policies.So it would be interested if you elboarted on why support the current Adminstration.Just saying.

http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=216

One more source of information concerning the comment made on "my hard earned money".These are the references being used to determine where people feel about the Adminstration's policies on economy.If anyone is interested,the Congressional Budeget Office is a great resource for information on the theses topics and is non-biased.

DianaW says ...

I didn't read all of the posts on this but here's my comment:

1.  Why does anyone care what Janine Garafalo thinks?

2.  I'd like to know exactly who called that person the original post quoted racist for not being happy with Obama so far.  I don't recall reading who exactly was calling her racist.

3.  You all realize that Janine Garafalo is a comedian and many of her statements have a  sarcastic humorous tone?

4.  Many of the protest signs at the "tea parties" were not necessarily disagreeing with the administration or the President as a person but were referring to his race so, in actuality, she had a point.

5.  Why do so many feel they need to justify themselves when having any issue with Obama?  You know if you are judging him with any weight on his being part African decent or not.  You know who YOU are.  If someone called me racist for not being happy about Obama's work then honestly, I'd have to laugh because it would be plain to me that they just don't know who I am.  If they continued and spread rumors or went public with the charge, I'd simply file a lawsuit of defamation and be done with it, and laughing all the way to the bank.

Anyone who screams racist at someone who doesn't like Obama's politics is an idiot fishing for publicity and trouble.

I like you put this together.I  can't speak for everybody,but the reason I posted this to begin was because I have had the same thing happen to me that has happened to Ms.Angie Harmon.

1.  Why does anyone care what Janine Garafalo thinks?

 Nobody really does care,but she was on a major network saying these things.And as a minority that has been through the racism ringer sl to speak. what she was saying was Hate speech,and therefore should not have been allowed to go that far.It would be same if a KKK memeber was on on major network saying things like that about minorities and the host sitting there agreeing with them.

2.  I'd like to know exactly who called that person the original post quoted racist for not being happy with Obama so far.  I don't recall reading who exactly was calling her racist.

I think she is talking in terms of what she has to deal with on regular everyday basis from peers.It does get to you after awhile.

3.  You all realize that Janine Garafalo is a comedian and many of her statements have a  sarcastic humorous tone?

I watched the show in question.There was nothing,NOTHING humorous about what she was saying.She was serious about everything that was coming out of here mouth. As a minority,I was extermely offended by her racist remarks.Which it is racism on her part,for saying that any "minority that went to Tea Party has stockholm syndrome".Many of the Tea Parties were either put together by minorities or had many black and latino speakers there along with those that attended, like myself.What she said was the same as calling minorities "Tokens" and well other things that I will not epress.The idea is ,and I have seen it on many sites since then,is that minorities do not truly have a choice as to which political ideology  they wish to support, without the server reprecussions from not only their own families and communities but also the media itself.That is not what people fought so hard for in the civil rights movement.At least that is how I see.So again,even if you agree with her,really watch it and ask yourself if it is offensive.Not just to conservatives,but to minorities.

4.  Many of the protest signs at the "tea parties" were not necessarily disagreeing with the administration or the President as a person but were referring to his race so, in actuality, she had a point.

I went to the Tea PArty in Houston.You can look at my pictures if you want.There was not one that was inr reference to heis race.Where there ones with him wearing a Hilter mustache,yeah.But there were the same images used in all the protest against Bush.So why is it okay for one party to get to use such images and it is not offensive and then anothe ruse it and it is.Ever group has it's red headed step-child so to speak.And any person's holding racist signs do not in any way speak for the mass majority of people there.And that I can say on behalf of those there.Also the media trashed all over us.They only picked out the most offenive signs to show and literally fought with people that they spoke to.That I cqan tell never happened at a Anti-Bush rally,why cause I went to those too=).They loved Anti-Bush protesters and you can see the vast difference in how the Media has handled the groups.There is clearly a bias.

5.  Why do so many feel they need to justify themselves when having any issue with Obama? 

Because we are called so many vile and vulgar things.And it is never ending.Recently I was actually told to "Shut up about being a minority,because clearly I was a racist" for not agreeing with Obama. I can whole hearted garuntee you that if you go to another site,and try just sticking up for someone who voices an opinion against the current adminstration and you to will be labeld a KKK member and racist.

You know if you are judging him with any weight on his being part African decent or not.  You know who YOU are.  If someone called me racist for not being happy about Obama's work then honestly, I'd have to laugh because it would be plain to me that they just don't know who I am.  If they continued and spread rumors or went public with the charge, I'd simply file a lawsuit of defamation and be done with it, and laughing all the way to the bank.

Like I said before I can't really speak for everyone.But I find it more offensive because I am a minority,that I am being called such things by white people.And that's just the truth.I can either just disagree and keep my mouth shut like a good little minority.Or face these types of attacks and speak up for what I believe in.

Eric Holder said that "we are a country of cowards" for not openly discussing the race issue.He is right.Why would anyone want to discuss what is happening in this country as far as race is concerned,only to be called a racist or KKK or worse if we do.

Anyone who screams racist at someone who doesn't like Obama's politics is an idiot fishing for publicity and trouble.

 Heeehee.Yeah they are idiotic publicity whores.But trouble they will not find that is why it is such a problem.

Global_Affiliate says ...

 I'm not happy with the way things are going with Obama in charge.  I waited until the absolute last second before I cast my vote for him.  I don't trust people who try to hide bad habits or addictions (his closet smoking).  I'm not seeing 'change.'  His speeches continue to inspire, but he's not walking the walk yet.  I voted for him because McCain didn't show me anything to indicate that he would be the better choice.  Cindy McCain would have made a fabulous First Lady and I almost voted for McCain just because I admired Cindy.

To wonder if you are a racist because you don't support Obama is a bit narrow minded.  By the way, I'm a Black American.  Have a great day!

Wow, that is really cool to hear how someone who did vote for does feel.And what went behind that decision. Yeah I like Cindy Mccain to. She has just done so much work in human rights and human dignity around the world.It is really inspiring.Thank you for wieghing in.

Was it considered racist to disagree with any of the past presidents? ...... answer: no....