Excelle

I am on several sites and have brought up the topic.It gets really ugly at times.But this is important considering what is at stake here. And although I do not believe being gay is right, I support gay marriage under the US Constitution and our Founding Fathers beliefs of "Liberty and Justice for All" and yes separation of Church and State.If we deny one group their rights then what protects us from having our rights taken away.Mind you I see both sides and have argued both sides.I have seen only one real solution that makes sense. Read it and tell me what you honestly think and feel. I know this is a very touchy subject,but we have to come to some type of accord. Let's try to keep it civilized.I don't want to think that any of you wonderful intelligent women would lower yourselves to the vile and vulgar acts that I have seen the other side said and do.





One woman who supports gay marriage answered this....."My solution to all this is to have EVERYONE establish a civil partnership and ONLY have a "marriage" ceremony if they want one and find a church who will perform the rite."

 If your a Christian you believe that homosexuality is a sin whether you frown upon it or not. Its condescending to think otherwise. And with Christianity, marrying those of another faith is not a sin or a bad thing.  Its just something a lot of Christians don't like which I've never really cared about.

I'm of the same mind as Belkis.  I support the gay community, I think a Civil  wedding is OK with all the same rights as a straight married couple, but  they shouldn't be angry if some churches refuse to marry them because in the Bible, homosexuality is still a sin, whether you agree or not. ALL peoples beliefs should be respected.

<!--Session data-->  Gay people are normal people just like the rest of us.  They were born gay, just like we are heterosexuals.  If they choose to get  married, they should have the right.  Why get married in the church?  The church creates rules to tell us how to live; I consider all of them a cult.  Control your own life.  Christians, it would take me too long to give my opinion.  I live by a simple religion, treat people the way you would like to be treated.  Be honest to your yourself and try to help those who need help.  Live a clean drug free life and eat well and protect your body and the environment. 

We live on the same planet, breathe the same air, the color of our blood is the same, therefore, we are truly more alike than not.  Why do some Americans continue to want to suppress people who look different from them and have different preverences.  Leave good people alone.  Don't interfere with a woman's right to choose and leave gay people to enjoy their lifes in their country "America".   Why are some of us so ignorant.  I DESPISE IGNORANT RELIGIOUS PEOPLE.  Men wrote the bible, the bible should be considered a "great fairytale".  WAKE UP AND LET ALL OF US ENJOY OUR FREEDOM.  I won't be offended by your rhetoric. 

Wow, this is an old post. Guess it needed to marinated long enough

First I will  answer derJoser question on why I feel Homosexuality is wrong.

1) Because it is part of my religion as a Christian.What many I think fail to realize when a Christian says that they believe Homosexuality to be sin/wrong they automatically think we hate Homosexuals and want only harm to come to them.The true nature of Chrisitanity is to "love the sinner not the sin".Just as lying is a sin,or even murder is a sin.We should still follow teachings of Jesus Christ in grace, love and forgiveness.But we should no accept the sin.

People think Christians are like those awful people from that Baptist church that stand outside Gay establishments and events and scream disgusting, hateful things.What everybody needs to remember is that there are Good representations of your religion,race,enthncity,culture, etc... as much as there are Bad representations as well.Usually, the bad representations seem to get all the publicity.

The same goes for Homosexuals.There was the horrible story about another Matthew Shepard, a straight 22 yr old amn. Who was murder by a Homosexual man who was trying to rape him.Should I then go around and say that all Homosexuals are out to rape and kill heterosexuals? No, because I know that is simple not the case.

2)To say that Christians are a "cult" is unfair[per DaisyS comments].It is simple apart of our religious belief.We don't want to control anybodies life as much as we don't want anyone controlling our own lives.

What it comes down to is if the definition of marriage. If changed by the federal law,wouldn't this then be intruding upon a Christian,Jew, or even Muslim's religion? It would in fact be a clear violation of one's religious beliefs.Whether a homosexual couple used the right get married in a church that disagreed with there marriage or not.You [as a general you,not any particular person] may not agree with others relgious beliefs, just as some religious people do not agree with homosexuality,but as you would want respect then respect should be given.

The other issue with that is that if the definition of marriage is changed,then let's say a homosexual couple goes to a Justice of The Peace and that person says "it is against my religious belief to marry you" Then because the definition is changed that person can be liable for discrimation under the law.Only stating a fact a here.I think we can all agree we are "Lawsuit" happy country, no matter who you are.

3) Also, I personally do not belive that Homosexuals are "born" that way.In fact that idea has only been acceptable (pushed actually) for about the past ten years or less. I have had many homosexual friends,gay and lesbian both, as well as transexuals.I lived in a the Homosexual community here in Houston,one of the biggest in the country believe or not, for years.And hungout regularly in the clubs and bars.And I would have to say that the only friends I had that were not Heterosexual who said they were "born that way" have been the Transexuals.Who I accept as more likely "being born" that way then I do gay or Lesbian.A transexual will tell you striaght out they  are not a homosexual.some actually get really upset about it if you call them homosexuals.They feel they were born the incorrect gender.Those that chose gender reassignment go through years of therapy to support their choice to be reassigned. Becuase in our society you are forced into labeling ourselves either heterosexual or homosexual.Which they are neither.

Many would agrue "look at statistics".

But I got my info from medical journals and personal stories as they were told to me.Like I said I think there are some that might be born as such,but I don't feel that it is as many as the information states,because certain factors were left out of the equation when they do studies of this nature.To me if you are going put statistics out there on certain issues all possibilities must be covered in order to come out with a real statistic.That is what science is built on,considering all factors, and eliminating them in order to come up with a real number.i have three of cousins who are gay and  told me it was because of rape or molestation from either a man or woman and just could not be withe the opposite sex.I have had two very close friends from Mexico.Arturo and Martin.Martin is Arturo's uncle.They both are gay.And they told me it was because they had been raped as kids.Arturo had been raped numerous times,by numerous people.I could name several others who confided in me that this is why they chose to be Homosexual.And like I said it is my personal opinion,based on the information that I have looked at (non-religious)and the personal stories that I have been told lead me to believe this is the case.I just to make sure that anyone who reads my statements understand I think it's possible for transexuals, I just don't think that is always the case for homosexuals.

I also what to make one point.That no matter how someone comes to be a homosexual.I don not believe that constitutes intolerance of any kind towards them. And that they are no different from you or I.I don't think that it matters what I believe on how or why they are,but that I accept them for as a human being and individuals.I do not accept thei lifestyle,but I accept them as equals.

<!--Session data--> Christians....that is exactly the problem with our society.  People who pass judgement on others, all hypocritical.  Men created the rules in christianity, having you believe in heaven and hell.  Men wrote the bible.  I grew up in Belize and went to church as a younster.  Every question I have asked as I grew up, noone could answer, at that point I stop believing.  It is all a myth, a great story.  My brother died when I was 16 and he was 20 of bone cancer, my friend died 2 years ago of breast cancer.  Neither one came back to tell me where they went.  They are dead, gone, buried - end of story.  Faith is the continuation of the brain-washing process, that you believe in.

People should try to live a clean life, don't hurt people, let others enjoy their lifes.  My son is 21, in college and an aethiest, I use to think of myself as a diest, not sure I am even that.  We just cannot believe any of that stuff.  None of it makes sense....none.  Not sure why I decided to intervene on these topics.  Race and religion, leave it alone, Rep vs. Dem, leave it alone, we can never agree on any of it.

No hard feelings to you, I don't hate anyone, just despise their views.  Have a great week!

DaisyS says ...

<!--Session data--> Christians....that is exactly the problem with our society.  People who pass judgement on others, all hypocritical.  Men created the rules in christianity, having you believe in heaven and hell.  Men wrote the bible.  I grew up in Belize and went to church as a younster.  Every question I have asked as I grew up, noone could answer, at that point I stop believing.  It is all a myth, a great story.  My brother died when I was 16 and he was 20 of bone cancer, my friend died 2 years ago of breast cancer.  Neither one came back to tell me where they went.  They are dead, gone, buried - end of story.  Faith is the continuation of the brain-washing process, that you believe in.

People should try to live a clean life, don't hurt people, let others enjoy their lifes.  My son is 21, in college and an aethiest, I use to think of myself as a diest, not sure I am even that.  We just cannot believe any of that stuff.  None of it makes sense....none.  Not sure why I decided to intervene on these topics.  Race and religion, leave it alone, Rep vs. Dem, leave it alone, we can never agree on any of it.

No hard feelings to you, I don't hate anyone, just despise their views.  Have a great week!

Instead of asking others you should have prayed to God and asked him yourself or read the bible.  This is the problem with many Christians, not what they believe, but that they do not belive it enough to stay faithful too it. Please do not assume that Christianity or any religion is a crock because it did not work out for you.  Also, most religions will tell you to love all, saint or sinner, as your brothers and sisters. 

Also, as I have said on many other forums, homosexuality is a learned preference the same as heterosexuality.  Nobody is born knowing which sex they are attracted to.  We are born as a blank slate preferring neither man or woman.  This choice, whether your aware of it or not, is made after a certain amount of time in your life.  I really feel that if nobody ever cared about it just about everyone would be bi sexual.

derJoser says ...

What stuns me is how easily jingoism (and/or how deeply homophobic our culture is) can be used for social control. Truth means very little evidently. The message I get is that what matters most is creating a negative image of lbgt's. Damn, this culture sickens me.

 

I want to comment on this as well. Because I feel that is not the case. All you ever hear about on the News or radio or on message boards is "How horrible" staright people,actually Christians, are because they do not accept Homosexuality. It is quite the reverse really. Christians are being demonized by the media, Hollywood and by Politicans. for not accepting Gay Marriage. Calling us homophobes and other really nasty things I just won't repeat.

While in countries like Iran and Iraq, the GLBT there are being rounded up like cattle to slaughter. To face torture and death that NO person should have to endure. (Which I will not go into detail because it is seriously graphic).Where is the outcry in the Staes by the GLBT community against this.

Christians are feeling more and more threatened as this debate goes on. We are being told that our religion is one of hate.That is simple not the case.Like I said in my previous qoute there are bad Christians as much as there are bad Gay people. They are not Bad because they are Christian or GAy, they are just bad people and we should as a society not lump everyone together.Or intimadate a group based on their sexual orientation or their belief system.

The Christian belief system is one of tolerance,grace and love. Yes we believe in that homosexuality is wrong. So what.Just beacuse we believe that doesn't mean we are some kind of marroding band of Homosexual killers.

I understand where you are coming from. I myself struggle day by day with this issue and the way that my faith sees it. Ibelieve that ALL chrches should encourage those in the GBT community to attaend church and that they deserve the word of God same as anyone else.Whether they turn their back on Homosexaulity or not, they should not be shuned. I mean hell, look at most congreations. Many of them are liars, drug addicts, cheaters, and glutons. Church is for ALL people.

 For me the best way for this to be resolved would be for the Leaders of the GLBT community and the leaders of ALL Faith to come together and come to some conculsion,without the intervention of the government.I just don't think it is necessary.Because now it is being used as a political tool and ostrasizing a single group based on their faith.This is a huge problem.

As much as Homosexuals want respect for being who they are. Christians want respect for the fact that we do not believe people are born that way. Homosexuals want respect to live their lives as they see fit. Christains want respect for the fact that that we do not want our children taught certain things.Everybody should respect each other in those areas.But respect comes from both sides, not just one.

I'm not opposed to gay marriage or homosexuals.  However, according to most Christian faiths, and the King James Bible, homosexuality is immoral, although The Ten Commandments makes no mention of homosexuality.  I do have cousins and other relatives who live as gay people.  Some with children who happen to be happy, well-adjusted children.  As for their inner thinking and outlook on their present home life, I'm really not privvy to.  I would love to sit down and ask children of this type of relationship their honest opinions, although I've seen/heard various outlooks through the media. I still love my relatives and wish the best for their happiness even if it goes against my personal outlook on life.  I believe that God will judge us all, in His time.  I refuse to pass judgment on those who live as homosexuals.  Some of the best friends I've ever had has been homosexual.  Their marriage, as 'mmalan' pointed out, does not affect mine. 

I appreciate the last two comments.  I appreciate how much thought and effort is put into thinking about this topic.  I want to point out, though, that I hear so often that it is a "sexual preference".  Although that may be a component of a relationship, it is such a small part that I wish it could be identified in some other way.

I love my partner.  She is my best friend.  After more than a decade I still get happy when I see her car pull into the driveway after work.  I love her family, and my family loves her.

We lover each other, we bicker over who left the dishes in the sink, we worry over our nieces and nephews, regardless of "which" of us they belong to, we do the housework, the yardwork, pay the bills, etc.

What I'm not saying very well is that our lives are not about sex.  Our lives are about living as good, compassionate, honest women.  If you can envision a same-sex couple and take the "sex" out of it, does THAT make it easier for you?